“So many sheep without! So many wolves within!”
—St Augustine

Last month, activist Matthew Heimbach was received into the Orthodox Church in the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America. (This was his first mistake; he would have been far more at home in the ROCOR.) Heimbach was, at the time, the leader of the Traditionalist Youth Network; he has since declared an indefinite sabbatical, for reasons to be explained below.

According to this statement from Heimbach’s priest, Father Peter Jon Gillquist of All Saints Orthodox Church in Bloomington, he has been excluded from Holy Communion for his “nationalistic, segregationist views”. Father Peter Jon writes: “Orthodoxy rejects the teaching that churches or countries should be divided along racial lines. For, ‘There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female for you are all one in Christ Jesus.’”

With all due respect to Father Peter Jon, however, while the Orthodox Church does reject the idea of geographically overlapping ecclesiastical jurisdictions and in particular the heresy of phyletism, which advocates overlapping jurisdictions defined along ethnic lines, it does not reject at all the idea that countries could be divided along ethnic lines. In point of fact, the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church wrote in The Basis of the Social Concept of the Russian Orthodox Church the following, on the subject of ethnic and racial identity and its relationship to the Orthodox Christian Faith:

In the contemporary world, the notion of “nation” is used in two meanings, as an ethnic community and the aggregate citizens of a particular state…In addition to their sharing one religion, the unity of the people of God was secured by their ethnic and linguistic community and their rootedness in a particular land, their fatherland…The ethnic community of the Israelites was rooted in their origin from one forefather, Abraham…The universal nature of the Church, however, does not mean that Christians should have no right to national identity and national self-expressions. On the contrary, the Church unites in herself the universal with the national…Orthodox Christians, aware of being citizens of the heavenly homeland, should not forget about their earthly homeland…Christian patriotism may be expressed at the same time with regard to a nation as an ethnic community and as a community of its citizens. The Orthodox Christian is called to love his fatherland, which has a territorial dimension, and his brothers by blood who live everywhere in the world. (emphasis mine)

This document makes it very clear that the concept of a nation as a community of people descended from the same ancestors and sharing linguistic and cultural ties is not only a legitimate one, but one which is explicitly endorsed by the Church. An Orthodox Christian is not “permitted…to love his brothers by blood;” rather, he is “called” to do so. An Orthodox Christian is obligated, according to the Bases of the Social Concept, to live an “active patriotism” both with respect to his territorial-political state and his ethnic nation.

Father Peter Jon writes of Matthew Heimbach:

Matthew must cease and desist all activities, both online, in print, and in person, promoting racist and seperationist[sic] ideologies, effective immediately. He must formally reject violence, hate speech, and the heresy of Phyletism. Finally, he must submit to period[sic] of formal penance in order to be received back into the Orthodox communion.

Now, this is where the case gets complicated. Heimbach has apparently been excluded from Holy Communion, and in order for him to return, Father Peter Jon has demanded that he renounce the following three things:

First, “violence”. It’s not entirely clear to me what acts of violence Heimbach has committed. I’ve been unable to find any evidence that he’s ever been charged with a violent crime. In fact, the biggest evidence I’ve been able to find suggesting that Heimbach is violent is this image (and it appears that this action was in self-defense). I was unable to find the origin of the image in order to put Heimbach’s actions in context, but again, there are no reports that he’s ever been arrested or charged with a crime. It is certainly not the place of an Orthodox priest to demand that Heimbach not defend himself if attacked. Whether that is what he is demanding is unclear, as are the circumstances prompting this demand, so my ability to comment is limited.

Second, “hate speech”. “Hate speech” is nothing but leftist smear language. It means any speech that violates the Cathedral’s orthodoxy, nothing more. Any expression of an opinion to the right of Jeb Bush can and will be classified as “hate speech.” There is unequivocally nothing in the canonical or doctrinal tradition of the Orthodox Church that makes “hate speech” an offense worthy of excommunication. This is the part of the letter that should be most troubling. If excommunications for “hate speech” become the norm, then the power of the Church hierarchy will be turned against anyone who expresses a political view outside the Overton window, and excommunications for “sexism” and “homophobia” will not be far behind.

Third, to the question of “phyletism”. Phyletism is a genuine heresy, and some comments Heimbach made at Occidental Dissent suggest he may subscribe to it. If this is the case, he should indeed renounce it. However, there is a certain richness to the righteous fury with which the American Antiochian hierarchy has condemned Heimbach for his alleged “phyletism.” After all, phyletism is nothing other than the proposition that in the same area, there should be separate jurisdictions for different ethnic Churches. This idea was condemned at the 1872 Council of Constantinople, which affirmed the traditional, canonical order of one bishop per territory. But for all practical purposes, the jurisdictional arrangement in America today is phyletist. In a particular city, you might find an OCA church, a Greek Orthodox Church, and an Antiochian Church, all serving different ethnic communities and commemorating different bishops. In fact, even within the OCA (the jurisdiction to which I belong) there is at least one explicitly ethnic episcopate — the Romanian Episcopate, held as a subsidiary title by the Archbishop of Detroit. Romanian OCA parishes all over the country, regardless of whose diocese they are physically located in, commemorate Archbishop +NATHANIEL of Detroit, simply because they are Romanian.

All of this is to say that while phyletism is indeed a heresy, it is highly questionable whether Heimbach has confessed it. And even if he has, he has, by doing so, simply confessed his support of a jurisdictional arrangement no more uncanonical, untraditional, or immoral than the one which our hierarchs maintain and perpetuate in America today.

Matthew Heimbach’s views are no doubt distasteful to many, including churchmen. I don’t agree with everything he says myself. But the bar for excommunication needs to be higher than that. One cannot be excommunicated simply for disagreeing with a particular cleric or hierarch on a matter of politics. One cannot be ordered to renounce “hate speech”, which is not a heresy. Father Peter Jon and Bishop +ANTHONY (if he gave his approval to the excommunication as Father Peter Jon implies) have acted wrongly in this case, and Heimbach ought to seek vindication in a canonical court.

Orthodox Christians of the Right are on notice: You will be attacked from within the Church as well as without.

  • http://www.amerika.org/ Brett Stevens

    Glad to be a Druid. It’s things like this that make us realize that the church plays politics on the basis of feelings just as much as the left does.

    • GeeBee36_6

      It always did. Read the Wiki aricles on the history of the Orthodox church and of the Pentarchy. Squabbling children from end to end, just like in politics.

  • jayvbellis

    Very disturbed to see cultural Marxism infiltrating even the Orthodox. Christian Church.

    The Ten Commandments and the Gospel of Jesus Christ is being replaced by Leftist political correctness where one can not speak openly against homosexual extremism, violent crime by PC protected racial and ethnic groups.

    Under the crazed ever shifting PC party line, a regular a Christian American can not criticize homosexual marriage equality, or criticize radical Islam – where homosexuals and non Muslims are executed.

    And the worst part is the fact that most Christian Americans do little or nothing to resist this tyranny.

    I support Mathew Heimbach for his idealism and his courage.

    • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

      Jay, you’re a fucking idiot. Tell me what your bishop has to say about this, and if he agrees with you, tell him he’s a fucking idiot too. I use my real name, am Orthodox, and very easy to find. I loved your last line. Nazi much?

  • http://morningnewstelegraph.blogspot.com/ Monroe Ficus

    They should be happy a millenial is taking interest in their religion. The only people who are going to keep the old churches alive are going to be people of a traditionalist bent.

    • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

      Nonsense. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

  • Rudeforthought

    On the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America:

    Independence: Self-Rule granted in 2003
    Recognition: Self-Ruled Archdiocese of theChurch of Antioch

    – Wikipedia

    What, precisely, is a self-ruled diocese? Isn’t the idea itself a violation of orthodoxy? What exactly does self-rule mean? Are they not beholden to their Patriarch? Are they not part of a larger church structure? Are they a phantom limb of the church cut off from the body?

    How can they criticize Matthew Heimbach for Phyletism when it seems they themselves are committed to the idea?

    • gavinjamescampbell

      They’ve repudiated phyletism by allowing converts and doing English language services. But still allowing Arabic language services.
      Given the level of racism that Arabs face in the English speaking world, and given that the general public of the English speaking millieu is still abysmally ignorant of the existence of Arabic Christianity (meaning that Christian Arabs face the discrimination meant for Muslims); it is only natural that there will be swift, fierce reaction to the presence of white nationalists.
      Welcome to reality.

      • Rudeforthought

        “Racist”

        All I needed to hear. I stop paying attention when cultural marxist buzzwords get tossed around earnestly rather than satirically.

        • gavinjamescampbell

          Oh, I know. The cultural Marxists are working closely with your local synagogue and Masonic lodge to put fluoride in your drinking water and backwards messages on heavy metal albums. They whacked Kennedy, staged the moon landing, and are helping reptilians from another dimension take over the Earth.

        • Laguna Beach Fogey

          You know you’re winning an argument with a liberal when they use that word on you.

          The word “racist” is the 21st Century equivalent of calling someone a “witch” and burning them at the stake.

          • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

            I know when I’m dealing with an intellectual and moral coward when they can’t bother with standing up for their own comments. Have a name, asshole?

        • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

          I know when I’m dealing with an intellectual and moral coward when they can’t bother with standing up for their own comments. Have a name, cowardly asshole?

      • curri

        WN’s and ALT-Righters have been among those who have spoken most strongly against the USG-KSA-Israeli role in the ethnic cleansing of the ancient Christian communities in Iraq and Syria. The ones your “legitimate” ethno-nationalists should get “fierce” with are the Jews and Christian Zionists. Read Marxist Prof. James Petras on the role of the Israel lobby in causing the Iraq War.

        • gavinjamescampbell

          And are among those who light their hair on fire about the presence of immigrants with a skin colour darker than theirs. Which way we cannot understand why Heimbach (of all people) would go Antiochian (of all jurisdictions) – ?!

        • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

          Hey, chickenshit, why don’t you use a name when you talk big?

          • BunnyMags

            What, like you? I’m sure Vova Saemmler Hindrichs is your real name. Unlike you and your bootlicking and pathetic progressive views, we can get fired for what we say. If you actually profess to be a Christian, I’d suggest you do some more reading on what going down the wide path our society and government has in store for you. I suggest you get used to the phrase “I know you not.”

          • Vladimir Saemmler-Hindrichs

            It actually is my real name, albeit “Vova” is the diminutive form of my baptismal name, Vladimir. Here’s my other profile. As far as bootlicking and pathetic progressive views are concerned, I’m a conservative, but I am not a Nazi or a racist. That’s why I quit the Republican party after 35 years membership. I don’t know what a BunnyMags is, but I’m sure it’s not in the phonebook. My confessor uses my name, as do my various ID cards. I’ll stick with my original assessment: you’re a chicken shit coward.

          • BunnyMags

            With edgy political commentary like referring to Republicans as “Nazi” or “racist” (despite, of course, its incessant pandering to minorities, vast shipments of monetary foreign aid to Africa, and consistent movement towards opening our borders), it’s no wonder you consider yourself brave to use your full name. Why, all of those powerful political figures who happily embrace those labels might come after you! Well, if there were any they might. It’s not as if people like John Derbyshire or Jason Richwine were fired despite giving factual information because it was viewed as “racist.” Or it could be that you’re the chickenshit (it’s one word).

            It’s disappointing that the Orthodox Church has failed to effectively catechize you to understand the harm you and your views are doing in the world. You can’t serve two masters, and you seem solidly in the camp of the world. As Western society degenerates further, you waste your time condemning the people trying to combat it by incessantly ranting about “racism” despite the fact that there is no condemnation of a division of nations and cultures in the Bible and that Peter and Paul both taught that so long as division did not contradict the faith, local customs could and should be upheld. The church is a meeting place of nations, not a battering ram to bring down the walls. I’m not sure where you received your Marxist view of the world, history, and Christendom, but it certainly wasn’t the Church, or an authoratative one at least.

          • GavinJamesCampbell

            Marxist view of history? Hardly. Seeing that Marx never once ever addressed the subject of race. Ever. While the concept of race was an entirely secular one, an explicit rejection of the Christian belief that human beings are made in the Image of God. If anyone here has been short-changed of an adequate catechesis, it is you.

            By the way, check out my profile pic. I have “upstanding citizens” like you in mind when I put it up.

    • Avenging Red Hand

      ‘Self-ruled’ means ‘autonomous’; that is to say, they have their own Holy Synod and largely manage their own affairs, but their Metropolitan is chosen by the Patriarchate (or the Synod of the Patriarchate; I’m not sure).

      • Rudeforthought

        But how can a part of a Catholic organization be autonomous? That seems at odds with the very concept of church structure and catholicism.

    • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

      It’s because priests and bishops don’t like to use expressions like “Nazi fuckwad,” which is a lot more accurate.

  • gavinjamescampbell

    Might I recommend that Arthur Richard Harrison, and other enthusiastic users of this website visit Russia to discuss their views of Nazism and Hitler? There’s new law that Putin signed, just for them!
    http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-criminalizes-nazi-denial/25373990.html
    Maybe you can share a prison cell with someone sentenced for promoting homosexuality. Such a man will be glad for your male company.

  • Avenging Red Hand

    Dear Sir,

    ‘Racism’ is not a real thing, but a smear word that means whatever the one making the accusation wants it to mean. The statement by the Russian Orthodox Church makes clear that a Christian is called to love not only his political nation (in Heimbach’s case, America), but his ‘brothers by blood’ (in Heimbach’s case, white Americans). Whether Heimbach is a Nazi is irrelevant because his priest did not ask him to renounce National Socialism, but rather, ‘violence, phyletism, and hate speech’. These are the charges that matter and that must be addressed to determine whether Heimbach’s excommunication is just. Your personal opinion (or mine, or Vladimir Putin’s) of his other political activities, or even the Russian state’s attitude toward the same, is beside the point.

    • gavinjamescampbell

      And brothers in blood includes people of black skin with African ancestry. Seeing that Orthodox Christianity does not have a racial taxonomy. In fact, the Church Fathers insist that there is one and only one human nature, shared by all men and women, and that Christ took that nature upon Himself in His Incarnation.
      So the statement by the Patriarch of Moscow should never be interpreted as a call for racial identity, seeing that Orthodoxy admits of no such thing. Especially when the Russians are very, very conscious of having gotten their religion from foreigners, and still fete their bishops in the Greek language.
      In this matter, personal opinions do matter when they are proscribed by the Church, and Heimbach has espoused views that are unacceptable for the Orthodox Church. And that is all there is to it. It’s a one-sided issue.

      • http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com Arthur Richard Harrison

        ‘So the statement by the Patriarch of Moscow should never be interpreted as a call for racial identity, seeing that Orthodoxy admits of no such thing. ‘

        You are wrong. Any good faith reading of the Basis of the Social Concept makes it obvious you are wrong. If you can convince yourself that that document does not endorse ethnic identity, you are beyond the reach of reason.

        • gavinjamescampbell

          Ethnic identity – yes.
          Racial identity – you’re bringing secular Western baggage with you; so no.

          • http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com Arthur Richard Harrison

            Do not start this nonsense with me where you attempt to be ‘more Orthodox than thou’ by oh-so-righteously rejecting everything you label ‘Western’. The difference between ethnicity and race, if it exists, is one of scale only. The claim that ‘brothers by blood’ refers simply to all human beings is so absurd that it doesn’t deserve an answer. Obviously the Basis of the Social Concept teaches that we are called to love particularly those who are more closely related to us, which naturally includes our coracials to some degree, our countrymen to a greater degree, and our family to the greatest degree of all.

          • gavinjamescampbell

            This issue is not whether I’m being more Orthodox than you, but whether what I wrote is true.
            And it is. Smuggling a Western concept of “race” into a statement by Orthodox Bishops will not do.

          • http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com Arthur Richard Harrison

            And tell me, O pure Eastern thinker, what precisely is the difference between ‘ethnic’ and ‘racial’ identity?

          • gavinjamescampbell

            Ethnic identity is based on culture. Race is an outdated biological theory.
            Anything else you’d like to ask?

          • http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com Arthur Richard Harrison

            No. I think you have elucidated the mendacity of your reading of the Basis of the Social Concept quite enough for any honest person to see the violence your ideologically-motivated interpretation does to the text.

          • gavinjamescampbell

            So, you’re not going to bother reading an Orthodox Church Father.

            All right then. All I need to read. You have a statement of a 21st Century synod, I have the Tradition of the Church.
            Thus, we are ships passing in the night.

          • http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com Arthur Richard Harrison

            I would never refuse to read St John Damascene, but nothing you’ve attributed to him is contrary to anything I’ve said.

          • GregoryR

            He doesn’t need to read the Fathers you see. Him and his peg boy Heimbach are smarter than all of them combined and thus can attempt to preach to the Church what it is it should believe based on their decidedly Protestant and Western mindset.
            The fact is that what they preach is anti-Incarnation and thus essentially a Christological problem, one they seem intent on spreading like VD in a whorehouse.
            Problem is people are aware of them now and Heimbach was the first of what will likely be many who will receive a dose of penicillin in the form of excommunication.

          • gavinjamescampbell

            What cannot be over-stated or over-emphasised, is that we do not need to be either liberal or leftist to be race deniers. And neither do we need to be post-modernist. We can be race deniers without being anti-foundationalist, and without being anti-essentialist. Orthodox Christianity has the pre-modern race denial, a race denial grounded in metaphysics and religion. We can thus honestly deny the existence of race without a political agenda.
            As can the secular race denier, seeing that race is just sheer pseudo-science.

          • gavinjamescampbell

            “II. 4. At the same time, national sentiments can cause such sinful phenomena as aggressive nationalism, xenophobia, national exclusiveness and inter-ethnic enmity. At their extremes, these phenomena often lead to the restriction of the rights of individuals and nations, wars and other manifestations of violence.

            It is contrary to Orthodox ethics to divide nations into the best and the worst and to belittle any ethnic or civic nation. Even more contrary to Orthodoxy are the teachings which put the nation in the place of God or reduce faith to one of the aspects of national self-awareness.

            Opposing these sinful phenomena, the Orthodox Church carries out the mission of reconciliation between hostile nations and their representatives. Thus, in inter-ethnic conflicts, she does not identify herself with any side, except for cases when one of the sides commit evident aggression or injustice.”
            Take from the ‘Basis of the Social Concept’. This is not white nationalism! (Mendacity of reading indeed!)

          • gavinjamescampbell

            While representatives the Orthodox Church express their concern about racism, including the Patriarch of Russia.
            https://mospat.ru/en/2014/04/11/news100717/
            Here’s a direct quote:
            “* Effective and humane policies for migrants and refugees especially in the sense of social inclusion. It is necessary always to seek ways to tackle the problem of extremism and racism. It is of paramount importance to work hard to corroborate democratic procedures and the rule of law at all levels.”
            Anti-racist and pro-immigrant! According to Bob Whitaker and his White Rabbits, Orthodoxy must be anti-white!

          • Nathan Lawrence

            You are aware that the Russian identity is actually multi-ethnic, right? It just means you were conquered by the same Vikings… There are actually multiple populations that qualify as “Russian”.

          • http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com Arthur Richard Harrison

            Me? Yes, I’m aware. So what?

          • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

            Nice string of 50 cent words. You’re still a moron. Just checked out your blog. Neoreactionary? Avenging Red Hand? Were you born full of shit, or did your association with Hembach make you that?

          • gavinjamescampbell

            Read “The Fount of the Wisdom” by St. John Damascus. The first part is called ‘The Philosophical Chapters’, in which he lays out his basic definitions of terms, and a basic theory of categories. He identifies humans as a species, but by-passes race to identify individuals as the subcategory to species.
            Very interesting reading. And St. John of Damascus also wrote the Paschal Canon.

          • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

            Actually, Alfayev defines what he meant with the statement. There are two categories: brothers in faith, as in belonging to one faith, and brothers by blood, as in belonging to the human race. You really do need to get a life.

        • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

          Arthur, stop being a simpleton. I know who wrote the piece, and I know what he meant. It’s pretty clear to most real Orthodox. Those key lines underscore everything: It is contrary to Orthodox ethics to divide nations into the best and the worst and to belittle any ethnic or civic nation. Even more contrary to Orthodoxy are the teachings which put the nation in the place of God or reduce faith to one of the aspects of national self-awareness.

    • gavinjamescampbell

      And, as a matter of fact, racial taxonomies of human beings are an invention of the Enlightenment and of modernist thinking. Race was invented by Carl Linnaeus.
      So for a so-called anti-modernist to insist on racial identity is as ridiculous as a Marxist demanding privatisation or a prostitute espousing virginity.

      • curri

        The invention of taxonomies aside, the great Islamic scholar Ibn Khaldun (1332-1406) seems to have noticed racial differences.

        Here are some of his quotes:

        “We have seen that Negroes are in general characterized by levity, excitability and great emotionalism. They are found eager to dance whenever they hear a melody.”

        “Beyond [known peoples of black West Africa] to the south there is no civilization in the proper sense. There are only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings. They live in thickets and caves, and eat herbs and unprepared grain. They frequently eat each other. They cannot be considered human beings.”

        • gavinjamescampbell

          Oh! You’re going to rely on the Saracens now! Do tell us of the clash of civilisations! Or recount the suffering of Christians under Ottoman rule!

          • http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com Arthur Richard Harrison

            The point that curri was making (and which you conspicuously failed to answer) was that racial differences were observed and catalogued long before the time and outside the place that you claimed as the origin of ‘racial taxonomies’.

          • gavinjamescampbell

            Not exactly a taxonomy, by his own admission.
            And his does not help your cause either way. Or does it? Write a letter to Bishop Anthony and tell him to re-instate Matt to full communion because an obscure Muslim writer no-one has ever heard of thought that blacks aren’t human!

          • http://theden.tv/ Wesley Morganston

            “an obscure Muslim writer no-one has ever heard of”

            I have, and I’d expect that a good deal of people I know who read social theory would at least be familiar with the concept of asabiyya.

            I’d provide quotes against your idea that he’s just some obscure writer no one has ever heard of, but there are enough on his Wikipedia page.

          • gavinjamescampbell

            So write a letter to Bishop Antony about Heimbach’s excommunication, and provide an explanation of “asabiyya”. See what you can accomplish.

          • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

            Sage advice. But as I mentioned before, I doubt that Bishop Anthony has any more time for Nazis than I do.

          • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

            I’ve heard of him, and I’ve even read him, but unlike you gullible racist sacks of shit, I don’t believe everything I select just to prove my point.

          • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

            So what?

        • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

          Using that type of logic, I’m a scholar too. I think people who espouse racism in any way, shape or form are trash and need to be slowly and painfully beaten. Please ask me if I give a flying fuck about the opinion of Ibn Khaldun. I was an academic long enough to know that I can glean quotes to satisfy any desired outcome. Again, Arthur, and “curri,” who is too much of a moral and intellectual coward to sign his/her name, you’re idiots.

    • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

      It is not besides the point. Nazism is not compatible with Orthodoxy, and I don’t need Father Jon Gilquist to tell me that. Racism is most certainly a real thing. Why don’t you look at Heimbach’s video interviews with the KKK and the Nazis? Or do you think that using expressions like “mud races” is a mode of Christian expression? You’re an idiot, Arthur. Why don’t you ask your confessor those questions, and if he approves of what you are thinking, he’s as big an idiot as you are. I have no problem signing my name, and if you tell me who your confessor is, I’ll have no problem telling him that, I am an Orthodox Christian. If you adhere to lines like that, you’re not.

      • GregoryR

        Why read when a picture is worth a thousand words? Here’s Fatt with his IKA nazi buddies.

  • gavinjamescampbell

    And this Orthodox convert (Me) finds your comment re-assuring!

  • Nathan Lawrence

    It’s true. I’m an African-American convert to Orthodoxy and I lived in Istanbul/Constantinople for a little bit. I tried going to the Ecumenical Patriarchate every Sunday for liturgy. Pascha was absolutely amazing. The Greek community there is very anti-fascist because they have to defend themselves against the Turkish Fascist party, The Grey Wolves.

  • Nathan Lawrence

    Arthur, how long have you been Orthodox and why the OCA?

    • http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com Arthur Richard Harrison

      I was received last Pascha. I chose where to be received more on the merits of the parish than those of the jurisdiction.

      • gavinjamescampbell

        I was received in 1993, kid .

        • http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com Arthur Richard Harrison

          Congratulations?

          • Nathan Lawrence

            What parish do you attend then?

      • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

        “I chose where to be received more on the merits of the parish than those of the jurisdiction.” Are you serious? One comes to the Church not because of the parish or the jurisdiction, but because one heeds the Creed, the Gospels, and follows Christ. And those are the only operative reasons. Then one finds the jurisdiction. The parish? That’s usually a matter of where one lives.

  • frjohnmorris

    An Orthodox Priest does not have to justify his pastoral decisions to outsiders, especially to a blogger on the internate. If this man objects to his penance, he can appeal to Bishop Anthony, the Antiochian Bishop in charge of the Diocese of Toledo in which Fr. Peter Jon serves. Otherwise it is no one else’s business.
    Archpriest John W. Morris

    • http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com Arthur Richard Harrison

      Father,

      With all due respect, I am not an ‘outsider’. I am an Orthodox Christian concerned with the direction the Church appears to be taking, and with the excommunication of an innocent man for fictional ‘heresies’. I share many of Mr. Heimbach’s opinions and if his excommunication is allowed to stand it does not bode well for me. So this is very much my business.

      • gavinjamescampbell

        No, it it does not bode well for you at all, does it!
        So you’d better repent of the opinions you share with Heimbach, or you are the next to be excommunicated.

        Having been in the Church for over 20 years, I am reminded of why I joined back then. Lines get drawn, and racism crosses one of those lines. So smarten up, Mr. Harrison, and make sure your next blog is the one in which you admit that you were wrong and that the Church is right to excommunicate Mr. Heimbach.

      • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

        Arthur, you are an outsider, and if you, as an Orthodox Christian, represent these silly play-Nazi viewpoints, you’re also a moron. The Church is not only right to excommunicate brown filth, if any commentary at all is appropriate, it would be that Father Jon screwed up in waiting so long

      • GregoryR

        And who is your bishop young man?

    • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

      Archpriest John has a canonical point. Although I sincerely doubt that Bishop Anthony has any more time for Nazis than I do.

  • http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com Arthur Richard Harrison

    ‘The ethnic community of the Israelites was rooted in their origin from one forefather, Abraham’

    • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

      So what?

  • Benard Holborn

    You based much of this post off of the document The Basis of the Social Concept of the Russian Orthodox Church. You seemed to have conveniently ignored this part from the document:

    “II. 4. At the same time, national sentiments can cause such sinful phenomena as aggressive nationalism, xenophobia, national exclusiveness and inter-ethnic enmity. At their extremes, these phenomena often lead to the restriction of the rights of individuals and nations, wars and other manifestations of violence.

    It is contrary to Orthodox ethics to divide nations into the best and the worst and to belittle any ethnic or civic nation. Even more contrary to Orthodoxy are the teachings which put the nation in the place of God or reduce faith to one of the aspects of national self-awareness.

    Opposing these sinful phenomena, the Orthodox Church carries out the mission of reconciliation between hostile nations and their representatives. Thus, in inter-ethnic conflicts, she does not identify herself with any side, except for cases when one of the sides commit evident aggression or injustice.”

    Don’t get me wrong, I can understand why you ignored this. It would have been rather inconvenient to your theory, after all. For you, and Matt Heimbach, patriotism and nationalism are the same thing. In the Church, they are not.

    • Denver Native

      You’re conflating a desire to preserve one’s heritage with the extremism and enmity you see mentioned in that article, and the reason you think that is soley due to exposure and internalization of secular left-wing political talking points.

      • Benard Holborn

        No, I’m simply pointing out that the blogger conveniently left out the part of the document he quoted which would have been very relevant to the subject.

        When one reads the part he left out, it’s easy to see why it was omitted.

        • GregoryR

          Very easy to see and certainly purposefully omitted.
          Cherry picking is the only way Heimbach and his ilk can defend his views and actions to the world or ill informed Orthodox.

  • Denver Native

    I’m not surprised. The Western world is full of this kind of caving in and pandering to left wing mobs. Clergy have no business adopting left-wing catchphrases like “hate speech” and demanding their faithful go along with them as if they were sacraments. This is pretty sickening and the clergy behind this should be excommunicated themselves. Indeed, ROCOR is where it is at and it is where I intend to go. These people have the audacity to say that the nations and ethnicities God created don’t have a right to exist as the people God created them to be? Can it get more repulsive than this?

    Oh — I know how it can get more repulsive than this. The same people that tar and feather this man for wanting white homelands support the Jewish State.

    • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

      As a member of ROCOR for a quarter of a century, with the exception of a small and insignificant handful of convert fundie priests in a remote part of the country, the ROCOR does not think the way you think it does. It has Black priests, Hispanic priests, Asian priests, English priests German priests, and even Russian priests. It even has bishops in most of those categories. The parishioners are hardly homogeneous, and hardly all white. There’s lots of interracial marriage. In my parish alone, which is a showcase parish of the ROCOR, we have a Black priest, a Hispanic Deacon, a Belarusian choir director, and at least 20 mixed race couples. And guess what? They are all my blood brothers and sisters. I thinbk it would be fun for someone like you to come to one of the bigger ROCOR parishes with an attitude like that. I for one would feel compelled to get physical with you, and that would force me to go to confession more often. Hey, Denver Native, what’s with the personal cowardice? A real Christian owns up to his or her beliefs. You can do that here by signing your name. Or do you realize that you are so chicken shit that you would be embarrassed among your peers to be exposed?

    • GregoryR

      From one Denver native to another you have no clue what you’re talking about.
      See Vova’s comment about the various races seen in ROCOR’s priests.

  • Cole Younger

    Apparently there are a lot of Christians who fully supporting the ongoing genocide of white people via unlimited and intentional non-white immigration. Without white people, there is no Christianity. Stupid self-righteous cowards. LOL

    • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

      “Cole Younger,” a moral and personal coward who hides behind a fake name, uses an expression like “stupid self-righteous cowards?” That’s rich. Talk to me, boy, when you have an identity. You’re a friggin’ idiot.

      • https://chronicreducer.wordpress.com/ Chronic Reducer

        Talk to me when we live in an age where a man can’t be fired from his job for having a differing opinion. Africa for Africans. Asia for Asians. White countries must be melting pots or else you are a white supremacist nazi who wants to kill six million jews. You aren’t anti-racist, you are anti-white.

    • GavinJamesCampbell

      Jesus is not white and neither were His Apostles.
      Meanwhile there is no genocide of white people going on. At all.

      And please take note of profile pic.

      • https://chronicreducer.wordpress.com/ Chronic Reducer

        The goal of diversity is zero white people, because diversity is a code word for white genocide. Whites are a minority on planet earth. Every white country and ONLY white countries are being flooded with the 3rd world. That’s white genocide.

        • GavinJamesCampbell

          Diversity is having a many different kinds of people as possible.
          Having zero white people is not having as many different kinds of people as possible.

          Meanwhile, what is genocide? It is the physical destruction of a group of people. People moving from one country to another country is not the physical destruction of a group of people. Thus, people moving from one country to another is not genocide.

  • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

    Adam, I think you are giving these moral and theological cowards too much credit. These bare racists, pure and simple, and a cursory review of Heimbach’s videotaped Nazi interviews on YouTube (not a figure of speech, he really does speak with self-proclaimed Nazis) tells you what we are dealing with. Bless you for your remarks.

  • Vova Saemmler-Hindrichs

    Another Greek idiot! Multiculturalism is Orthodox, and so is your archbishop. You, on the other hand, are a useless piece of shit.

    • Phil

      You mean another Greek hating bigot. that obsessed ranting about Greeks. Get a life troll.

  • Dilbert

    Heimbach should convert to Catholicism … and not revert to his non-Catholic Vatican 2 heresy he grew up with.

  • insurgent phallus

    Funny how the religion of love breeds so much division.